Ep #61: Tips Roundup with Margaret Mason Tate

It is our slightly belated one year anniversary and we are so excited to be sharing with you a roundup of some of the best tips we’ve given you on the podcast over the last year, as well as some new ones you haven’t heard yet. Stay tuned.

Welcome to Parenthood Prep, the only show that helps sleep-deprived parents and overwhelmed parents-to-be to successfully navigate those all-important early years with their baby, toddler, and child. If you are ready to provide the best care for your newborn, manage those toddler tantrums, and grow with your child, you’re in the right place. Now here’s your host, baby, and parenting expert, Devon Clement.

Devon Clement: Hello, and welcome back to the Parenthood Prep podcast. Today we have one of our favorite guests back, Ms. Margaret Mason Tate. And uh, we’ve been doing this podcast about a year. More than that actually. We had this idea to do this sort of one year anniversary roundup of all the biggest and most important tips we’ve shared. And then we got caught up doing other cool stuff. So we’re doing it now. And she calls it a tips roundup, which made me decide to talk in a fake cowboy accent and call it a rootin’ tootin’ roundup.

Margaret Mason Tate: My favorite children’s book that my dad used to read me was called Cowboy Dan and the first lines are, “I’m a rootin tootin cowboy and my name is Cowboy Dan. I can drive a steer and rope a hog as good as any man.”

Devon: I love it.

Margaret: I want a Cowboy Dan tattoo now.

Devon: You would get one too. I met a girl who had a lot of tattoos and one of them was a cowboy boot that was a beer pitcher because she was at a bar in Texas and it was like the logo of the bar and they had a tattoo artist there and you could get a free tattoo of the bar’s logo which was a cowboy boot that was a beer pitcher and she was like, “Sure, let’s do it.” And that is what I don’t understand about tattoos.

Margaret: Yeah, no, I, too, would do that. And you have been with me when I’ve gotten a random tattoo.

Devon: Yeah, I don’t even think I would get a temporary tattoo of that.

Margaret: Well, so here’s what I want to tell you about the tips roundup that you don’t know yet.

Devon: Okay.

Margaret: I want to do it. You know that game where they put the phones on the foreheads and it has like a bestie phrase?

Devon: Heads up?

Margaret: No, no, no, no. It’s like a, it’s like a real, it’s like a meme trope right now.

Devon: Oh yeah, they like make their own like heads up for inside jokes.

Margaret: Exactly. So I have kind of made that kind of scenario with what I believe are five of your seemingly most unhinged but ultimately the best tips that you’ve given so far, not ever, but that you’ve given so far. So what do you think of that?

Devon: I love it. I like games. I like heads up. I’m a little nervous that I’m not going to know what you’re talking about, but we’ll see.

Margaret: It’s going to be fine. I would never steer you wrong.

Devon: Sometimes I say unhinged things and then don’t remember them after, but…

Margaret: I’m confident in my ability as your friend and as somebody who has been working on this podcast for the year that I can communicate to you the things.

Devon: Okay, I’m ready.

Margaret: All right. So, number one, this is from this little clue, episode 7, okay, way long time ago.

Devon: Oh, just back in the day. What summer children we were then.

Margaret: Okay, crying bird.

Devon: Oh, the bird method of baby soothing.

Margaret: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so let’s talk about that.

Devon: So it’s where you basically, you know how when people have a pet bird, they cover the cage with a blanket at night and they say, it’s nighttime, bird, and like they don’t, the bird thinks it’s nighttime even if it’s not. And like the bird doesn’t wake up until you take the cover off the cage, because you’re like showing them that it’s daytime.

So if you do that with your baby, like even babies that are like six weeks old are so stimulated by what’s going on, and they love to look around, and they’re so interested. So if you like kind of block their vision and make them think that there’s nothing interesting to look at, they will close their eyes so fast.

So sometimes you’ll be like rocking a baby, and they will just have their eyes, like you can tell they’re like fighting to keep them open. And you’re holding them in your arms in kind of the typical baby cradle position. You take like a burp cloth or a small blanket or something, and you throw it over your shoulder and arm so that it creates kind of a curtain around the baby. Obviously we’re not covering the baby’s face, we’re not smothering the baby. Air is still coming in from the side. I want you to know that we’re not draping the baby’s face. This is important. You’re creating a…

Margaret: Yeah, this isn’t a ghost costume.

Devon: No, perfect. It is not a ghost costume. We’re not doing that. We’re making a curtain like on a stage. Like we’re putting a curtain, and the baby is behind the curtain. And I swear to you, you have been looking at this baby going, “Please close your effing eyes.” And within a minute, they will have their eyes closed, and they will be done.

You can also do this like if they’re in the stroller, you throw like a light blanket over. Again, we don’t want to suffocate them, but like I had a baby I took care of who was so stimulated by everything that you couldn’t even use a blanket with a pattern on it. We had to get plain blankets to cover the stroller so that she would close her eyes and go to sleep.

Margaret: I also just kind of want to say from the scientific standpoint that the like specifically those wonderful muslin blankets that have been all the rage the entire time I’ve been a parent.

Devon: Yeah. Those are the ones we would use to cover the stroller.

Margaret: Well, and they diffuse the light. They soften the quality of the light so that it’s not quite so bright. And just like the blurring effect on FaceTune, honey, it is delightful. Okay. Okay, so you did really well.

Devon: And I do want to say, though, with the bird method, it’s not even necessarily about making it dark, which like I recommend being in the dark anyway. It’s more just about blocking their view of anything interesting, including your face. Your face is their favorite thing to look at in the whole world. And then, you know, parents’ faces and then everybody else’s faces, they love that. So if they can’t see anything but a boring burp cloth, they’re going to be like, “F this, I’m going to sleep.”

Margaret: Yeah, if I’m looking at a silver movie screen and there’s no freaking movie on it, I’m probably going to close my eyes too.

Devon: And sometimes if I don’t have, for whatever reason, access to that, I might just put my hand over like, almost like I’m shading them from the sun. Like I just put my hand over their forehead. You can also do like a downward stroke on their eyebrows to get them like a little relaxed. Block the vision, stroke the eyebrows, that baby is out.

Margaret: Done. Okay, so you knocked that one out of the park. That one wasn’t hard?

Devon: No, no.

Margaret: Okay.

Devon: That’s one of my favorite tips.

Margaret: Well, okay, so this next one is my ultimate favorite tip. I think that this is absolutely brilliant, but I don’t want to give anything away. This is from episode 19. Okay. The clue that I’m going to give you is, hey girl.

Devon: Oh, Ryan Gosling.

Margaret: Yes! Yes! Ryan Gosling and the brownies. Talk to me about it.

Devon: Ryan Gosling and the brownies. So there’s a whole episode about this, but I’ll try to I’ll try to be quick about it. If you woke up in the middle of the night and Ryan Gosling was in your kitchen making brownies, would you go back to sleep?

Margaret: Absolutely not. There’s no way.

Devon: Absolutely not. And if night after night, every time you woke up, you got to go eat brownies that Ryan Gosling had made you and sat with you while you ate, would you ever decide that you were just going to sleep instead of doing that?

Margaret: Absolutely not.

Devon: Absolutely not. So why would your baby suddenly decide that they’re just going to go back to sleep when they wake up in the night, when the alternative is you come in, their favorite people and say, “Hey girl, hey boy, hey kid. Like, let’s, oh, oh, what’s going on? Why are you awake? Oh, hey, let me pick you up. Oh, let me rock you. Let’s bounce on the ball. Oh, you want to feed? You want a bottle? You want to nurse?” Like, let’s do that. Who would choose not that?

Margaret: I mean, quite literally not me.

Devon: Yeah. So, it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to just ignore them and let them scream and cry. I mean, listen to the episode. But when you respond to your baby in the middle of the night, don’t make it as exciting for them as Ryan Gosling making brownies would be for you.

Margaret: So the tip ultimately is, don’t be Ryan Gosling, which is shorthand that sounds, like I said, it sounds unhinged, but it’s so legit.

Devon: It does.

Margaret: It is so legit.

Devon: It’s true. And a lot of times what happens is they’ve been sleeping well, and then they hit that regression, which they call the four-month regression, but really happens at like 12 weeks. And so then you’re kind of perplexed. You’re like, “Why are you waking up all of a sudden? What’s going on here? Hey.”

Margaret: Let me bake some brownies about it.

Devon: Let me make some brownies about it. And then the next thing you know, they’re seven months old and still waking up four times a night.

Margaret: Absolutely.

Devon: Because every night you go in and make them brownies and you’re their Ryan Gosling.

Margaret: Yeah. You get used to being Ryan Gosling just as much as they get used to you being Ryan Gosling. And I did just want to say there is an entire episode about this, and we’re going to link all of the episodes that we mention in the show notes. So if you’re listening to this, please, after this episode is over, click on the show notes and listen to episode 19. It’s one of my very favorites ever.

Devon: It’s a good one.

Margaret: Okay. This one, I got to tell you, is going to be the trickiest for me as the clue giver.

Devon: Okay.

Margaret: Uh, saving money on your honeymoon.

Devon: Oh, okay. Um, I people should be planning to have a baby from before they even get engaged.

Margaret: There we go. Yeah, you knew it.

Devon: And honestly, like, I don’t even necessarily think you have to like scrimp and save and make different choices. You just have to be thinking ahead to, you want postpartum support more than you want the slightly better flowers at your wedding.

Margaret: Yes. I would have much rather had postpartum support immediately postpartum than I would have had matching bridesmaids’ pajamas.

Devon: Yeah.

Margaret: You know, these little things that are not ultimately consequential. And I got to say, I have a lot of faith that my friends would have rather me had postpartum support than them have a random pair of pajamas or a gift basket or just whatever.

And I hear what you’re saying about, you know, you don’t have to scrimp and save and sacrifice, but that’s only true if you do it from the very beginning, and you start thinking about it. That’s how you don’t have to cut anything out is if you plan from the very beginning. When you’re halfway down the road…

Devon: Or, you know, in a different way, like say you’re you’re very fortunate and your parents are paying for your wedding or whatever, being in the mindset that your postpartum support and care is as important as your wedding and your honeymoon. Like we had a client for sleep training years ago who literally wrote in her review, “This was better money spent than my wedding.”

Margaret: Yes.

Devon: So, if you are fortunate enough to have access to that, you know, I look at people who agonize over paying for some overnight care, paying for sleep training. And then I go to their home and I see this like pictures from this wedding that they had and I’m like, “This is as…” and they realize it. They do. And I think just in general, if you want to have kids, if you think that’s something that you might want, don’t wait until you’re pregnant to start preparing and start getting ready for that. Like the same way you would save up for a bigger house or a bigger car or whatever, like think about getting that support on board. And it’s not like a failure if you get. I mean, okay, let’s make a whole episode about this.

When I was a teacher, I came straight out of college and graduate school into teaching. I was in my early 20s, and I knew at that time that I wanted to get married and I wanted to have kids. And when I got my, you know, teaching package, you get 10 sick days a year. And when you go on maternity leave, you can use your sick days as part of that. And I said to myself, “You know what? Say I want to have a baby in five years, it would be amazing to have 25 sick days in the bank.” So every year, I tried to use five or fewer sick days. Of course, if I was like very sick, as you are often in the first year of teaching, you know, I would still use it, but I was careful about my sick days because I wanted to save them up.

And in fact, I said that once to one of my co-workers who was like middle-aged, she had like teenage kids. And she said, “Why are you thinking about that already?” And I did the math for her and I said, “If I want to have a baby, even though I don’t even have a boyfriend, I could see myself having a baby in four to five years and having 20 or 25 extra sick days is going to go a real long way for that.” And she was like, “Wow, that’s really smart actually. You are right.” And then I ended up leaving teaching and got to use all my extra sick days in my last couple months of working, which was cool, but…

Margaret: I mean, we love to see it. We absolutely love to see it.

Devon: Just thinking about that and just planning ahead. I didn’t want to get to the point where I was like, “Shit, I’m pregnant. I have three sick days in the bank and I’m going to want to spend more time home with my baby than I’m getting paid for.”

Margaret: Yeah, and additionally like, you know, pregnancy is kind of tough for some people. And maybe need sick days on the front end of that. So I mean it’s just so smart to start prepping. And you know, I’ve been married, I’ve also been divorced, and part of that divorce really was a huge amount of disproportionate emotional labor, or like invisible labor. And I believe that having postpartum support if you can is better than marital therapy.

Devon: Oh, a million percent.

Margaret: Genuinely.

Devon: We say that all the time, and sleep training.

Margaret: Yes.

Devon: We say that all the time. I want to do a post or an article, or something about things sleep training is cheaper than.

Margaret: Love that.

Devon: And one of them is fucking getting divorced.

Margaret: Oh my God, it’s true. It’s very true. Okay, so I can’t believe it, but we’re already more than halfway through. I’m going to move to, I think, I think what would be your favorite tip. Maybe I’m wrong, but I know you pretty well. This is from episode 27, and your clue is Zelda.

Devon: Oh, treat your baby like a video game character.

Margaret: You love it. You love video games, you love all of it.

Devon: I do. Well, Zelda in particular, but I wish that babies were like a Tamagotchi, like you remember those?

Margaret: Oh my God, yes.

Devon: And they told you when they were hungry or when they were tired or whatever. I mean they do, but like had it very obviously, like a little screen on their forehead that showed you.

But what I’m basically saying with treat your baby like a video game character is when they are at full health, full attitude, well-rested, fed, in a good mood, don’t feed them your valuable video game resources. Don’t give them the potions.

There was a game we used to play called Gauntlet at this like arcade in town that people used to have birthdays at. And I remember there was like this chicken leg, and you’d walk around with your character in like the palace or whatever. And if you got the chicken leg, it was like your food, like you got a boost. But if you had full health, you didn’t need the chicken leg. And so if you got it, it would just go to waste. And in Zelda, you save your resources. If you just started drinking your magic potions when you had full hearts, that would be stupid. So you save your magic potions, which are what? The snacks, the Play-Doh, the screen time.

Margaret: The song you hate.

Devon: The song you hate on repeat. You save those things for when that bar starts getting depleted, when they go from green to yellow to red. And then you don’t have a kid who’s starting to get cranky, who’s already done Play-Doh, already listened to that song you hate, already watched TV, already eaten snacks, and you have all those resources at your disposal.

And my favorite story, which I told on that episode, is I was at lunch with a friend and her toddler. He was like 15 months old or something. And we ordered food and the food hadn’t come yet. He was sitting on her lap, but we had the high chair there. And there’s a basket of bread on the table, and she starts feeding him bread. And I said, “Stop. Do not.” She’s like, “Why? He loves bread.” I was like, “Exactly. Right now, he is happy as a clam. He’s sitting on your lap, he’s playing with the silverware.”

When our food comes, you are going to want to put him in the high chair. And we need to pay him for his services of getting into that high chair for us.

Margaret: Leaving us alone for a second.

Devon: Of leaving us alone for 10 minutes so we can eat our food. And we are going to pay him in bread.

Margaret: Correct. You know, babies are not video games, and they’re also not birds, but sometimes they’re birds, okay?

Devon: Well, it was funny too because she’s like, “He likes to eat hunks of bread like a pigeon.” I was like, “Exactly.”

Margaret: Yeah.

Devon: You’re not going to feed a pigeon while it’s like pooping on your car.

Margaret: Yes.

Devon: You know?

Margaret: So, I think that a lot of that is that we have so much pressure on us to be constantly in motion as parents and being seen in action. And we forget that parenting, when it’s done best, it is responsive rather than being active.

Devon: Yeah. Absolutely.

Margaret: You know, if they’re not freaking out, like they’re fine.

Devon: Leave them alone. They’re fine.

Margaret: Please leave them alone.

Devon: Oh my God, the number of times I’ll be sleep training and the baby’s like babbling in the crib, rolling around. “What should we do? What should we do? What should…” Nothing. We do nothing.

Margaret: Yeah.

Devon: We do nothing.

Margaret: Because guess what I did last night when I couldn’t go to sleep.

Devon: Rolled around and babbled?

Margaret: I did a little rolling and I did a little babbling. You know, I fussed. I, a 39-year-old home-owning, educated, articulate woman.

Devon: Yeah.

Margaret: I did a little bitching. You know what I mean? I went… mhm uh, I want to go to sleep, because you know why? Because I wanted to be asleep so bad.

Devon: Yes. Yes.

Margaret: And guess what? I left myself alone. I, my, I parent me, parenting my own inner child, left myself alone, and guess what?

Devon: You fell asleep?

Margaret: You’d never know it, but you’re absolutely right. I did fall asleep.

Devon: And if I was there, and every time you made a noise, and I came running into your room and was like, “What do you need? Are you okay?” Would you have been able to fall asleep?

Margaret: No, and I have seen much older children who were parented that way, and boy, are they anxious wrecks.

Devon: Oh, jeez.

Margaret: Okay. I legally can’t do this episode without mentioning somebody who I think should be a saint. Can we talk to New Leo about I want to reach out to the Pope to just say like, “Hey, for your consideration, FYC, Susan Clement.” For Sainthood.

Devon: Ah, yes. Honestly, she should have this podcast, but she can’t be bothered.

Margaret: I’m sure she can’t. She’s so busy being retired and amazing. Fabulous.

Devon: Honestly, riding her bike on the boardwalk every day.

Margaret: So, I feel like I’ve already given you a hint, but I’m not, I mean, we have so many parenting nuggets from her that like how could that narrow it down? So.

Devon: Dating advice. She’s full of it.

Margaret: She’s the best. She is just the best. I love her so much. So, this is from episode 56.

Devon: Oh, a recent one.

Margaret: Yeah, this is this is more recent. So it should be a bit of a of a softball for you. What would we tell a kid if I showed them my menagerie of animals?

Devon: Oh, that it’s the zoo. Take him down to the corner, show him a cat and a dog, and tell him he went to the zoo. She is the queen of like, don’t parent until you need to. The queen. And I was raised beautifully.

Margaret: Oh, absolutely. And able to appreciate the smallest things. Like you really are as an adult, right, happy with…

Devon: Yeah. And she really prioritized like sleep, her own and ours.

Margaret: Yes.

Devon: Like when friends tell me their like eight-year-old still comes in their room at night, I’m like, “Are you…?”

Margaret: Yeah, lock the door. Call the police. What?

Devon: I cannot even imagine opening Susan Clement’s bedroom door while she was asleep. Like, what?

Margaret: That’s a no.

Devon: Yeah. No, she prioritized chilling. You know? We did very few like huge things. And in fact, once in a blue moon when we did do something, like she took us to the Bronx Zoo one day, she’s like, “It was like the worst day.”

Margaret: Yeah.

Devon: It was hot, you were tired, you could barely see the animal.

Margaret: It’s expensive. You’re walking all around.

Devon: The food is expensive. Like, what are we doing?

Margaret: Yeah.

Devon: And literally, kids just want to go out for a walk and point at every dog that walks by, and that is better than the zoo for them.

Margaret: Yes.

Devon: Better.

Margaret: And that is environmentally friendly, baby. It is waste-free. It is low toxins. It’s all the sexy things about, you know, that we’re trying to be doing as parents these days.

Devon: Honestly.

Margaret: It’s everything.

Devon: And something I love, which wasn’t I think as available to us as kids, although maybe it was. A lot of my friends will take their kids to like Petco.

Margaret: Oh.

Devon: To just like look at the guinea pigs and the hamsters and the birds.

Margaret: Yeah.

Devon: That’s the zoo, baby.

Margaret: Yeah, and that…

Devon: And guess what…

Margaret: And you needed…

Devon: While you’re in the shopping center….

Margaret: Exactly.

Devon: …go to Target, pick up the cat food.

Margaret: You needed the cat food anyway.

Devon: Yeah.

Margaret: It’s, you know, I hate to keep talking about birds because but it’s so many birds with…

Devon: Do you know how much I love talking about birds? I could talk about birds. This could be a bird podcast.

Margaret: Oh my God. As you get older, birds become a bigger part of your life. I don’t understand it, but that is a phenomenon that’s actually real.

Devon: It’s so true.

Margaret: Okay, well, listen, you got five out of five. So I’m pretty proud of you.

Devon: Amazing. Well, I, in anticipation of this tips roundup, rounded up some tips that I have not really said yet because I feel like there are little nuggets that I like to share that are not big enough to have their own episode, but are just like good tips. So I’m going to do a little bit of rapid fire, little quicky tips.

Margaret: Hit me. I’m excited.

 

Devon: Baby socks, put them in one of those mesh lingerie bags in the laundry.

Margaret: Okay. Get them at TJ Maxx.

Devon: Yeah. Keep that bag, that mesh bag like on the side of the baby’s hamper or whatever, put the socks straight in there. Zip it up, wash them in the bag. Guess what you’re not doing? Fishing socks out of every little crevice, dropping the socks on the floor, and then being like, “Where’s the other sock?” You have a bag of socks that, the socks that wash together, stay together.

Margaret: Oh, we love to see it. Also, uh it’s a safety measure because they’re not going to get sucked into those like um…

Devon: Oh, yeah.

Margaret: Not vent.

Devon: Yeah, like the filters.

Margaret: I guess it’s the filter, the filter.

Devon: The lint, yeah, the lint trap or anything. Yeah. Put those socks, keep all the socks in the lingerie bag, then when they go through the wash, they go through the dryer, they’ll come out all dry, dump them out, match them up, put them in, or don’t, you know, whatever.

Margaret: We absolutely love it.

Devon: Get that mesh bag for socks. In fact, get two because sometimes you might have a basket of clean laundry sitting and you haven’t done the socks yet and you want a different. So as soon as you take that bag off and throw it in, put a fresh bag. They usually come in like a two pack anyway.

Margaret: Yep, they sure do. Literally the ones that I at TJ Maxx that I looked at do come in a two pack.

Devon: I was at At Home yesterday looking at the aisle of like kid decor, because of course that’s where I buy most of my decor is like in the kids department.

Margaret: Absolutely.

Devon: They had one of those like, you know, where it just hangs on the shelf, like one of those things like in the grocery store. And it was a lingerie organizer, and I was like, “Why is this in the kids decor aisle?” But I guess it was with like other closety stuff. It was just so funny.

Margaret: It’s interesting that you say that because, guess whose kid has three of those in their closet?

Devon: Honestly, it’s probably great for kid stuff. I just was laughing. I was like, “Oh yes, for your children to store all their lingerie.”

Margaret: All of their lingerie. All right, hit me with the next one, baby.

Devon: Okay, nail cutting. What is harder for a parent than cutting their baby’s nails? You should see the look of disgust on her face right now.

Margaret: I can’t. It’s, this is this topic is so distressing to me.

Devon: Because you cut your kid, right?

Margaret: Yes, the very first time I ever cut Hamish’s nails, I cut him, and I can still hear the sound, not of him crying, but of the…

Devon: Yeah.

Margaret: And it just, it wrecked me. I made my mom do it until she died. Literally.

Devon: I’m telling you, I had a client who, not that she had ever even done anything bad, but I just was with her so much and then even when after the babies were older, I was like babysitting them once a week and this was a long time ago. Literally cutting their nails was my job. I don’t think she cut their nails until they moved out of the city when they were like four.

Margaret: Yes.

Devon: Because every time, I just cut their nails. So, here is my tip that will revolutionize your nail cutting. You will never cut your baby again or ever. Hold them on your lap facing out so that their hand is in the position that your hand is when you cut your own nails. I cut a child once because she was sitting in a high chair, and I tried to come at her from the front.

Margaret: Like a manicurist.

Devon: And it is awkward. Like a manicurist. We are not manicurists. We are…

Margaret: Correct.

Devon: Unless you are a manicurist, in which case, cut your baby’s nails however you want because that’s your expertise. But when you hold them on your lap and their hand is positioned the same way as your hand, as if you were cutting your own nails, it becomes a breeze.

Margaret: Absolutely. I love it.

Devon: And don’t be afraid to hold their hand a little firmly even if they fuss about it because better that they be a little fussy than that they like whip their hand away while you’re in the middle of cutting. Hold them on your lap facing out, cut them, file them, whatever you’re doing. It’s a game changer for nail cutting.

Margaret: We love to see it. All right, next one.

Devon: Have a white noise app on your phone.

Margaret: Oh.

Devon: Yeah. There’s one I love called White Noise Ambience. It has like 20,000 noises, including bacon frying, which sometimes I listen to just for fun. When you are out and about in the world, if you’re in the car, if you’re walking them in the stroller, if you’re at somebody’s house and they are crying and they are losing their shit, you throw that white noise app on the pink noise. That’s the one that Dr. Harvey Karp recommends. It is like a little bit of a higher-pitched white noise. Throw that on, and it will calm them much faster than if you were not doing that.

If you don’t have your phone or you don’t listen to me and you don’t have the app, you can go in like a bathroom and throw the water on. The sound of the water running they really like. Anything that sort of organizes their sensory systems and eliminates like external noise. The number of times I’ve had a newborn like out and about in the world and just thrown that white noise on, it’s a game changer.

Margaret: Well, and there’s got to be something to the continuity of it, right? Let’s say you pick pink noise as like the thing that you’re going to do. There’s got to be some kind of appreciation on the baby’s part for the continuity because, you know, this stranger’s house, it smells different and it feels different, the temperature’s different, and you know, the vibe is off. But like when they come back to that pink noise, it feels familiar and it feels, you know, safe.

Devon: Yeah. There’s also, the white noise machine I recommend is called the Electrofan Micro. It’s teeny tiny. So you can also bring that with you when you travel to a hotel or something like that so that you don’t have to like use your phone. You can even keep one in the diaper bag or whatever, especially if you have a baby that is prone to overstimulation and you feel like you’re using it a lot. That can be really helpful to have. But don’t be afraid to like think outside the box and do that.

Don’t get the Baby Shusher. It’s creepy. I hate it. The white noise app does better than that and is not creepy, and is free or like very cheap.

Margaret: I’m just going to tell you this because I’ve never told you this. When I was in college, my college boyfriend had a turkey call that he kept in his car.

Devon: Oh, good God. For what?

Margaret: Well, he was an outdoorsman and a fly fisherman, and a hunter.

Devon: Oh, right. You’re from the south.

Margaret: Yep. This boy was from the Shenandoah Valley.

Devon: Okay.

Margaret: Anyway, the turkey call was very weird to see it in a Volvo 240 driven by a 19-year-old man. And every time I have seen the Baby Shusher since then, I have seen that weird turkey call. So people might be like, “Why does she think that the Baby Shusher is creepy?” It is because it is a turkey call.

Devon: And I think whoever invented it was very well-meaning. They were like, “Oh, the baby responds when I shush them. So I’m going to make a device that does that.” But actually the only reason we go shh, shh is because we need to breathe. If they could have continuous noise, then that’s even better.

Margaret: I love your tip about the water running. Okay, we’ve gotten through a few. Do you have any more?

Devon: I have two more.

Margaret: Hit me.

Devon: When you’re feeding them baby food out of a pouch, just squirt it right in their mouth.

Margaret: Why… what else would I do? What do you mean?

Devon: I watched a dear friend. I love her. Squirt the baby food from a pouch into a bowl.

Margaret: A bowl that she had to wash?

Devon: A bowl that she then had to wash. I was like, “Why are we dirtying dishes in this moment?” The baby pouches were invented so that we did not have to dirty as many dishes.

Margaret: Yes.

Devon: So at the very most, squirt it onto a spoon and just spoon it in, do a little squirt, spoon, squirt. Like, why are we bringing a bowl into this? The bowl can take a break. We don’t need a bowl here. And frankly, anyone who is judging you for squirting a pouch directly into your baby’s mouth does not have kids.

Margaret: Correct.

Devon: Or is criminally insane because they spent so much time washing bowls that they dirtied with the food from the pouch.

Margaret: Do not let anybody’s weird self righteous bullshit about what they did and their sacrifices and, “I cleaned my whole house every day top to bottom and my child…” Like, please cut corners.

Devon: You know who didn’t do any of that? Susan Clement.

Margaret: Neither did Yvon Mason. I’m here to tell you right now.

Devon: Yes. They did not have pouches when I was a baby, but if they did, oh, I would have been eating them.

Margaret: Can you beat a cinnamon applesauce pouch? I contend that you cannot.

Devon: And I think the broader picture there is like look at what you’re doing and say, “Is there a way that I can streamline this?”

Margaret: Yeah. What corner can I cut?

Devon: Here. We are going for a circle. We want a circle. Cut all the corners. Cut them all.

The last one, and as I was writing this out, I thought, “You know what, this is really a whole episode,” but I’m going to say it. If you have someone who wants to help you, your mom, your mother-in-law, your sister, your friend, and they take the baby for two hours, and you’re like, “Oh great.” And then they bring the baby back, and they’re off schedule, and they haven’t napped, and they’re like, “Here you go, have your baby back.” And you’re like, “You know what? Honestly, it’s more work for me just to not let that person take them.”

Go against every instinct that you have in this moment and have them take them longer. Don’t have them take them less, have them take them more. You want to let her get up after 45 minutes of a nap and not leave her to go back to sleep? Cool. You can deal with her for three hours after that until bedtime or the next nap. I’m not going to come in and clean up the mess that you’ve made. I’m going to let you clean that up.

And you know what? If your mother-in-law wants to, I didn’t want to shit on mother-in-laws, but whatever. If she wants to have the baby all day and keep her on her own schedule and feed what she wants and do what she wants, that’s not your problem.

And I had a client a few years ago who had her older son, started him in daycare part-time time and he was really struggling, like two days a week, he was struggling. And she said she asked the daycare what to do, and they said, “Send him five days.” And she started sending him five days and it got better. It got better because he had a routine. It wasn’t like randomly twice a week, I go to this place where I don’t know anybody, and it’s unfamiliar.

Margaret: Yeah, they all know the rules, and I don’t.

Devon: Yeah. I knew what to do. I knew the kids. I knew that we got up in the morning and we went to school. And she said it was like a game-changer. And I’m like, “That’s so true.” If you have a babysitter come, like once a quarter, and the kids lose their mind about it, have the babysitter come every week.

Margaret: Absolutely.

Devon: Don’t let their like displeasure or their being off routine mean that you stop doing the thing. Do it more. Make it a routine.

Margaret: Do it harder.

Devon: Do it harder. Make it a routine. I mean, it’s the same thing with sleep training. Like if they are, you know, resisting going to sleep on their own, don’t say, “Oh, well then I’m going to lay in bed with you.” Like, be more consistent about it. Do it harder. You’re going to go to sleep on your own even more.

Margaret: One of my mantras is plan the work and work the plan.

Devon: Yeah.

Margaret: Because so often we want to adjust the plan to the circumstances and that absolutely should not be the case.

Devon: No. I mean, you have to be flexible. Sometimes you have to make a game-time decision or make a change. But a lot of the time, breaking your routine or not having a routine or having a flimsy routine, like randomly I’m going to send you to grandma’s house for the day, is going to make things more difficult.

Margaret: Absolutely. Well, I have a little request.

Devon: Okay.

Margaret: I would like to say one of my tips. Can I say one of my tips?

Devon: Please.

Margaret: This sounds gross and it’s because it is fucking disgusting. But the tip is, if you change a baby’s diaper, especially a stinky toddler, like a…

Devon: Oh yeah. Once they start eating food, it’s…

Margaret: The ones that have the honking poops.

Devon: …game over. Why do you think I started specializing in newborns? Honestly.

Margaret: It’s a full man’s poop in a diaper.

Devon: Oh God, yes.

Margaret: And it’s all smashing on the crevices. My tip is if you change a baby’s diaper and after the change is done, you’re like, and you can smell poop still, like fresh poop and you can’t find it on the don’t look for on them. Look on you, you are the stinky one.It’s on you.

Devon: It’s on you. It is. Oh God.

Margaret: And I hate to tell you that, but that is real.

Devon: It’s true. You are going to get poop on you like a lot. People wonder like how I can like clean up so much kitten poop and like kind of stinky dirty kittens and not be like horrifilly disgusted by it. And I’m like, “I have had baby poop on me so many times. It just doesn’t phase me anymore.”

Oh, it’s like in that Sex and the City where Steve comes over to pick up Brady and Miranda has like poop on her forehead.

Margaret: Yes.

Devon: Yes. And then she like goes to wipe it off and she gets like more poop on her face.

Margaret: I had poop on my earlobe one time. This is not a joke.

Devon: That’s…

Margaret: If it was, it would be a really horrible and disgusting joke, but this is this was real life. And I kept sniffing my child, Hamish. I kept like, you know, trying to locate, I’m like looking on the blanket…

Devon: Did you poop again? Where is it?

Margaret: What happened? Or like did a dog poop somewhere? I mean, what is happening? And the reason that the smell was so freaking strong was because it was right at my nose level on my ear. It was horrible. It was horrible. So.

Devon: You also learn pretty quickly to keep your mouth closed. For me, it’s, you know, when you do the thing where you like lift the baby up over your face, like an airplane, and you’re like, “Ah, the baby’s flying.” And then they drool, and it goes directly into… ugh. And a dear friend of mine, I think it was maybe the first week her son was home from the hospital. She was changing his diaper. He started peeing as they do on the changing table, and she reacted the way anyone would react the first time someone pees in front of you, and she went, “ahhhh.” And guess what happened? Yeah. Yeah. So.

Margaret: And then that’s like the rest of your day. I don’t know. It emotionally wrecks me.

Devon: It’s the rest of your life, Margaret, honestly. I think she told me that story when he was about seven. Did you hear that I got pee in my mouth the week he came home from the hospital?

Margaret: I mean, it’s disgusting and horrifying.

Devon: I do have another quick funny story before we go. Can I tell it?

Margaret: Of course.

Devon: Okay. So I had a lovely client a few years ago, the most New York of stories. She was single, she wanted to have a baby, she was, you know, getting older. She was like, “You know what? I’m just going to do it by myself.” She had a friend who wanted to be her sperm donor. He was a gay man, he was older, he did not want to raise children, but he did want to have a child and be part of a child’s life. And you know what? It was a lovely arrangement for the both of them. They were thrilled with it. He was lovely. She was lovely.

Now, this was a middle-aged gay man in New York City. He had never been around a baby in his life. I was there supporting her. He came over to visit. Great, lovely to see you. I said, “Do you want to hold the baby?” He was like, “Uh, yeah, okay.” So I put the baby in his arms very gently. He’s holding the baby. It’s so sweet. He’s looking at the baby. And the baby starts pooping. And you know a newborn when they poop, you can really hear it. Like it’s loud.

Margaret: It’s like comically loud.

Devon: And I’ll tell you why. It’s because they don’t have butt cheeks yet. But.. That’s also why the poop shoots straight up their back. I was just saying this to a new mom. But we’ll talk about that after. So he’s holding the baby. He starts making this noise and the and the guy freezes like And I said, “Oh, he’s pooping.” Or he’s like, “What’s happening?” I was like, “He’s pooping. Do you want me to take him back?” And he goes, “No, no, it’s okay. It’s just it’s my first time touching someone while they do that.”

And I was like, “You know what? I have touched so many people while they were pooping.”

Margaret: It’s so many people.

Devon: So many people that it doesn’t even cross my mind, that that’s weird.

Margaret:  But it’s pretty weird. Like when you get down to it.

Devon: I don’t go in the bathroom while Alex is in there, and put my hand on his shoulder. Like what…

Margaret: You know, offer a kind embrace.

Devon: Just pat him a little bit. You know, “Oh, get it out.”

Margaret: Yeah.

Devon: No. It is not a normal thing until you are a parent or a caregiver of a child to touch someone while they poop. Or a nurse or you know, a medical professional like…

Margaret: It’s kind of not on the radar.

Devon: So that is the thing about babies why newborns, I’m pretty sure why their poops sound so loud and like go so far. It’s because their butts are so tiny. They don’t have like the butt cheek to kind of muffle the sound and sort of it just sprays out everywhere.

Margaret: It is bubbly and really distinct and specific. Yeah. Devon, I adore you, and I think that you’re a baby genius. Not a baby who is a genius, but a genius about babies.

Devon: I was also that. I mean, I was sleeping through the night at six weeks. What could be better?

Margaret: This has been a super, super, super good roundup, and I can’t wait until next year when there’s a whole other year for us to go through and play this exact same game next May.

Devon: I’m very excited. Thank you so much, Margaret. It’s always so fun to have you on. And uh the next time your baby’s pooping, thinking about how weird it is that you’re touching them while they do that. I mean, it’s not weird. It’s fine. It’s what you do when you’re a parent or a caregiver, but…

Margaret: But it’s also pretty surreal.

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