Ep #15: Sexy Time Tips for Postpartum Couples With Margaret Mason Tate

Welcome to Parenthood Prep, the only show that helps sleep-deprived parents and overwhelmed parents-to-be successfully navigate those all-important early years with their baby, toddler, and child. If you are ready to provide the best care for your newborn, manage those toddler tantrums, and grow with your child, you’re in the right place. Now here’s your host, baby and parenting expert, Devon Clement. 

Hello, and welcome back to the Parenthood Prep podcast. I am so excited for this episode, because today we have a guest and it is one of my favorite people in the whole world, Margaret Mason Tate. She is a coach. She is a teacher; she does all kinds of stuff I’ll let her tell you about. 

We did a webinar together for my free webinar series, which you can access from our website HappyFamilyAfter.com/webinars, all about your relationship with your partner after you have a baby, and what it looks like to get back to intimacy and sexy times. I’m going to be a huge dork throughout, just a little forewarning; more so than usual. 

Devon Clement: Margaret, why don’t you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do. And then, we’ll jump in.

Margaret Mason Tate: I feel like I should have a folk guitar and be singing about Sex Ed. to kids in a circle. This is my favorite. Hi, I’m Margaret Mason Tate. I’m a coach and consultant and writer here in Atlanta, Georgia. I really enjoy helping people to live more aligned lives with the lives that they see in their minds and what is possible. And you’re one of my favorite people, too. 

Devon: That’s great. And I think a big part of what you do is sex and intimacy coaching, a lot of times with one or both partners in a relationship. Especially male-female, socialized as man and socialized as woman couples; there’s a lot of drama that can happen. And you work with, I think, both or either. And certainly, in same sex relationships and queer relationships, and things like that, these issues come up. 

Especially after one person has pushed a human being out of their body by some means, out of some opening or other. And that can really change things. But even if you haven’t been the one, or whoever, to get that baby out of your body, things are still really different when you have a new roommate who demands your attention nearly 24 hours a day.

Margaret: Any new roommate, whether it be kitten, puppy, human being, or a full-grown adult. Devon and I joke that my cat is an Icelandic roommate, because I do not understand his culture, or his language, or his attitude at all. He barely tolerates me, but I thoroughly enjoy living with him. With regard to babies, any way you bring one home, it’s going to be really, really different the next time that you have sex, whatever sex looks like.

Devon: And I think that’s a big part of it. That’s something we got into on the webinar, I think a little too far, in we should have opened with that. Sex does not necessarily mean what it used to mean. What are some things that it can look like now?

Margaret: What even is sex? So, sex now can be a really, really good, slow, erotic but not penetrative, massage with discussion about what about that person turns you on, what you want to do in the future, what you’ve done before that you loved. Inciting these memories is really bonding, especially [cross talk]. 

But it’s thinking about when you had that vacation sex, when you had the conception sex. I had amazing conception sex. I feel like it shows in my kid. 

Devon: Not having a baby myself, I feel like there are times where my partner and I will be like, “Ooh, you remember that time that we did that thing? Remember that day that it was just random, but it was really good? Remember last weekend, when we had people at our beach house, and you texted me at three in the afternoon to come upstairs? Remember that? That was great.”

Margaret: Well, I think that it’s incredible. And then, when you realize that integrating the new role into you as a person, parenthood into you as a person, it’s really challenging. So, harkening back to “Hey, I still remember you as this person who is so absurd as to abscond from their own pool to go do things in the house.” That’s the best. 

And no matter how many kids you have, how many roommates you add, it’s really important to have those memories and that bonding. To always remember that the person is a whole person and not just this creator of worlds.

Devon: Yeah, I want to really put a fine point on that. It’s something that is so important to me, that we talk about so much on this podcast, is your identity as a person. Separate from a parent or a person who’s a parent now. But you’re still a person. You’re still, in a lot of ways, the person you were before, who enjoyed having a relationship with your partner. 

And now, there are so many chaotic things that are happening in your home, to your body. Maybe you have family staying. But anything that helps you remember… “Remember who you are.” What is that from? Is that The Lion King? “Remember who you are.” Now I’m going to be hearing Mufasa’s voice in my head the next time I have sex.

Margaret: You’re welcome. 

Devon: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I mean that genuinely. 

Margaret: Hamish and I saw the preview for… There’s a new Lion King situation where it’s Mufasa’s story. And I’ve got to tell ya, I’ve never been more excited. I’m very thrilled. 

So, the second thing is massage. The second thing that you can do, that would be not P and V, you can do… This sounds so textbook-y, but the term is “mutual masturbation”. Where you are in control of what’s happening to your own area. That can feel so intimate, and so intense, and so intimidating sometimes to do. A lot of people have never done that in front of their partner, ever.

Devon: I think, especially when you have a body that has been very deeply changed, you need to re-familiarize yourself with what’s different. Now, what does that feel like? So, yeah, I can’t believe we just said “mutual masturbation” on this podcast. But you know what? We did. That’s our vibe, you guys. 

Margaret: Again, Where’s the folk guitar? I need to be like, “Mutual masturbation’s good for newborn parents…”

Devon: Some of my family members listen to this. But it’s fine, we’re not going to talk about it. But yeah, I would say exploring your body, what you like now, what hurts? What doesn’t hurt? What feels good? What doesn’t? And even if you haven’t given birth, what do we have time for? What can we do as quickly as possible while the baby’s asleep and they don’t need me to jump up and get them? Also, we have a million things we have to take care of. What can we do in a hot 10-15 minutes just to have a good time together?

Margaret: Yeah, for sure. And I think realizing that things are different, figuring out what feels really amazing, and then figuring out how to communicate in a way that’s effective and sexy. Not pressure sexy, not you need to be sexy for your partner. But as a human being, you don’t want to go in there with an art director mentality. You’d like to be discussing these things in a way that is mutually arousing. 

And that’s possible, but it does take a little bit of forethought, and kind of getting into it, leading up to that. So, I love that we’re talking about how to know if you’re even ready. 

Devon: Yeah. And I think something that’s really important… Of course, there’s all this talk about consent. Which, of course, is a big deal in dating situations, and that kind of a thing. But when you’re with your partner, it sort of takes on a new meaning. Because it’s like, “What do I feel ready for?” Maybe you don’t even want to kiss because you’re nervous that they’re going to turn it into something you’re not ready for. 

And you need to say, “Listen, here’s what I’m ready for right now. Let’s make out. Let’s do that for a while. Let’s see what happens. But that’s where I want to stop it. And if I’m ready to go further, I’ll let you know.” Sort of changing that paradigm from ‘everything’s okay until it’s not,’ to ‘these are the only things that are okay,’ can really create that pathway to move towards being ready for more.

I just have had so many friends and clients say that they really want to do stuff, but they’re nervous and they’re worried about their partner not being cool with that. Just talk to them. Just tell them how you’re feeling and what you’re nervous about. If you’re nursing, you might say, “I’m nervous that we’re going to start fooling around and I’m going to start leaking milk everywhere. And that’s going to be weird or creepy, or whatever.” 

Margaret: If you’re a dad, or a person who’s on the opposite end, have this on the receiving end, as it were, the right response here… Say it again, “I’m nervous…” say all the things again, Devon.

Devon: “I’m nervous that we’re going to start making out and my boobs are going to start leaking milk.”

Margaret: Listen, that for sure is going to happen. “And A. I’m totally okay with it. It’s good to be totally fine. B. It is super not gross. In fact, it is the hottest thing in the world, and you are a goddess, and I fucking love you.” That is the right response.

Devon: Perfect. In fact, say that all the time, just say that anyway to me. And if what you want to do is put a towel… I mean, I think you should put a towel down anyway; 

Margaret: Who doesn’t love a towel? 

Devon: Or extra pads. Whatever you need to do to feel comfortable, do those things. You have that power to set yourself up for success.

Margaret: And it’s not forever. Which is what leads me to… They’re always evolving, the things that you’re wanting to do, or the things that you’re ready for, whatever. That kind of needs to be a consistent conversation. When we are in long relationships, we fall into the best kind of rhythms. My partner, we’ve been together for seven years in August, he knows exactly what to do. We could have sex in 10 minutes and we’d both be happy as clams. 

That’s not necessarily the same now. And going into that used to make them amazing partners. Like, “Oh, yeah, I know exactly what to do.” Now, we all have to learn again, and it’s always going to be changing. 

Devon: It’s true. And figuring out how to fit it in when you have a house full of people, versus texting me in the middle of the afternoon. We used to always do it on a weekend morning. But now, we’ve got a house full of people, and we want to get downstairs and make waffles and hang out and have fun. And then, when there’s that afternoon lull, that’s our new time. 

Sorry, friends. I feel like our friends all kind of know, so it’s fine. So, maybe you like to do it at night, and now you can’t; you’re so exhausted or whatever. You need to find new ways, new times, new spaces.

Margaret: Yeah. But it’s going to be different, expect that and embrace it. Know that it doesn’t have to be forever, these changes. I’ve never really enjoyed sex in the morning. I’m always, always, always an afternoon delight kind of gal, or early evening. But when you get the moment, you get the moment. So, you have to take it. It doesn’t have to be that way forever. Now that I’m on the other side of that, I’m still an afternoon delight gal.

Devon: And one thing, to your point about taking the moment… We go into a lot more detail about this in the webinar… sometimes you have to prioritize. Like you’ve got 20 minutes that you think the baby’s going to be cool. You’ve got a sink full of dishes and you’ve got a partner waiting for you. The dishes will be fine, they can wait. And partners, maybe you do the dishes. Maybe you step in. I’m sure you know that already. 

But I’ll never forget, a million years ago I was reading, back in the days of blogs… Remember that? I feel like they’re back now. I loved blogs. I read so many blogs. So, it was this dad writing on his very popular wife’s mom blog. And one of the things he said was, he was talking about getting back to intimacy with your partner, and he was saying how the best thing to do to get them interested is not whine and nag them, it’s do the chores. Hire a cleaner. 

Think about the things that are stopping them up. I don’t think the thing that is keeping your partner from being interested, in being intimate with you, is the fact that you’re not whining enough or nagging them enough. I mean, I’m not here to kink shame, if that’s what you guys are into. But in general, I don’t think… Also,  getting mad about it, getting mad that your partner doesn’t want to be intimate with you when they just had a baby, that’s not sexy. Let’s not do that. 

Let’s think about how we can make this better. Alex learned that when we were leaving the house… When we first got together, he’d be sitting there going, “Are you ready to leave? Are you ready to leave? We’re running late.” I’m running around feeding cats, taking out the trash, and putting my shoes on. And now he says, “What can I do to get ready to leave?”

Actually, that was a phase for a while. Now he just knows what to do. Now he knows, if there’s a special situation with foster kittens or whatever, he’ll say, “How can I help get ready to get out of the house?” And it is so much better. We get out of the house faster. We are more on time for things, and he’s not pissed at me for making us late, and I’m not pissed at him for not seeing all this stuff I’m doing. That has been huge.

Margaret: I really like to remind people, since this is a new incorporation of a new part of the identity… It’s not a new identity, but it is a new incorporation… then you need to seduce that new iteration. That new iteration of you needs to be seduced by your partner. You need to feel desired, wanted, attractive, alluring; all of these things are so important. 

And how you see yourself has a lot to do with whether you’re wanting to get down with the “get down”. It is shocking to me how many dudes will be like, “My wife doesn’t like to have sex anymore after the baby.” Which is also what they sound like, that literal voice.

Devon: I’m so turned on right now, I can’t even tell you. 

Margaret: But when was the last time that you really looked at her? And instead of being like, “I want to bone,” just say, “You are the most beautiful person I’ve ever seen. I don’t want to look at anybody else. This is all I want, and all I need. I love you.” I’m seducing you right now, Devon. Look, we’re like… They can’t see us but we’re tangoing. This is important. 

Devon: It’s huge. I think people really underestimate how powerful something like that can be. It’s not that hard to just make some eye contact and say a nice thing. 

Margaret: It is vulnerable as hell, though. It is really very vulnerable. And sometimes we think, “Damn, I’ve already revealed all myself to you. I married you. Come on.” We can retract a little bit. And, in fact, we should be pushing further and further and further into that intimacy, and saying, “This addition to our identity, it makes me feel powerful. It makes me feel amazing. And I think that we are total badasses for this. Come on.” That’s awesome.

Devon: I love that. Just before we wrap up, a little relationship tip. Even before you get to this part, and it might help you get to this part, don’t get mad at your partner for things that are not their fault. Which I think is so common in the early days. I see it all the time. It’s so easy. 

You are allowed to blame your baby for annoying stuff that they do. You’re not allowed to scream at your baby or hit your baby, or anything like that. But you are allowed to look at your partner and say, “Can you believe this little fucker just pooped all over the changing table? And now we have to clean the sheets.” Not like, “Oh, my God, you didn’t open the diaper the right way, and now…” Turn it around, “This little asshole… Now we, together, have to deal with it.” That’s a better attitude. 

I’ve had a lot of clients that I’ve told that to, come back to me with some story later about an instance where they were like, she was like, “I was about to get mad at him, and then I realized it’s not his fault, it’s her fault. She’s the one that woke up in the middle of the night. That wasn’t him.” 

Just to not unnecessarily blame each other for things. And then, when you feel like you’re on a team together and you feel like you’re truly partners like you hopefully were before and it’s not you and the baby against the other one, then you can start to be like, “Hey, that person on my team is pretty cute, still.” 

Margaret: team-mate, let’s practice.

Devon: Mmm, he looks good with a baby on him. She looks good with a baby on her. Hey.

Margaret: I really hope that this helps people go to the webinar, because we packed a lot of stuff that obviously we’re not going to hit on here. I hope that dual clickies…

Devon: Yes. HappyFamilyAfter.com/webinars… Not “happily”, happy family. It was a little play on words that I thought was cuter than people have seemed to think it is. But it is the website, so that’s what it is. Where can people find you online, Margaret?

Margaret: At Margaret Mason Tate, everywhere that matters. And MargaretMasonTate.com for coaching and consulting.

Devo: Perfect. Well, I love that, and I hope that you are a return guest and a frequent guest here on the podcast. I think we are really good together, just like you and your partners are really good together.

And I would love to hear your stories, about how your baby is a little asshole, in our Baby Roast. Go to HappyFamilyAfter.com, there’s a little button that says “Leave a Voicemail.” Tell us what those little bitches are doing to both of you. Because, let’s be real, they are. These new roommates are messing up the house, messing up the schedule, messing up our lives. I’m not into it, but we love them. We do. 

Margaret: We’re ready to roast them. Thank you so much for having me, Devon. 

Devon: Of course, of course.

Alright. Listen up, folks. We love to joke around, but it’s time to get real. And that real talk, it’s all about giving your babies the roasting they deserve. Yep. You heard it right. We’re calling for an epic baby roast. We want you to drop a voice note on our website and call out your little ones for their adorable crimes. Did your baby spit up on your brand new dress the second you put it on? Or maybe they decided to scream through your sister’s wedding vows? We want to hear all the juicy details. Head over to happyfamilyafter.com or hit the link in the show notes. Every page on the site has a button on the side for you to record straight from your phone. Your story might just make it onto an episode of the Parenthood Prep podcast. We can’t wait to hear.

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of Parenthood Prep. If you want to learn more about the services Devon offers, as well as access her free monthly newborn care webinars, head on over to www.HappyFamilyAfter.com.